[vdr] SoftHDDevice

[Torgeir Veimo]

Does anyone have any experience with this plugin, and can offer some
opinion on how it differs from the xineliboutput and xine plugin?

[Steffen Barszus]

Post by Torgeir Veimo
Does anyone have any experience with this plugin, and can offer some
opinion on how it differs from the xineliboutput and xine plugin?

- no use of libxine
- decoding in the plugin (no client executable (yet?), no client/server,
less buffers)
- decoding with ffmpeg (vaapi/vdpau/..)
- very young project still, first impressions of people: some things
already working well, of course not ready for production yet

Just following the discussion @vdr-portal.de , no own experience yet ...

[VDR User]

What's the url for this plugin? I would definitely like to try it!

Does it also have a built-in media player?
Does it support an HD osd?

I've always used xine-lib-1.2 vdpau + vdr-xine and the mplayer plugin
for media playback. Then recently tried xineliboutput because it has a
built-in media player.

Thanks

[fnu]

Post by VDR User
What's the url for this plugin? I would definitely like to try it!

http://projects.vdr-developer.org/projects/plg-softhddevice

Post by VDR User
Does it also have a built-in media player?

No, at the end the mplayer- and music-plugin will do this job

Post by VDR User
Does it support an HD osd?

Where ist the difference? Plugin does support OSD size up to display
resolution ...

Cheers
fnu

[VDR User]

Post by fnu

Post by VDR User
Does it support an HD osd?

Where ist the difference? Plugin does support OSD size up to display
resolution ...

How about the new truecolor osd VDR has now?

[fnu]

Post by VDR User
How about the new truecolor osd VDR has now?

Well, you did ask regarding a "HD OSD" which isn't automatically a true
color OSD ...

Whereas AFAIK true color OSD is also possible with SD (576i) output, e.g.
xine/xineliboutput. The main problem, there isn't any real true color OSD
skin out there, to use it ...

But the skins I did test, looked impressive with softhddevice :-)

Regards
fnu

[VDR User]

Post by fnu

Post by VDR User
How about the new truecolor osd VDR has now?

Well, you did ask regarding a "HD OSD" which isn't automatically a true
color OSD ...

Sorry, I had two questions. 1) does it support HD resolution, and 2)
does it support truecolor. I should have been more clear. Sounds like
the answer is yes to both though.

Post by fnu
Whereas AFAIK true color OSD is also possible with SD (576i) output, e.g.
xine/xineliboutput. The main problem, there isn't any real true color OSD
skin out there, to use it ...

I've made several truecolor themes for yaepghd but bball (the author)
never added support for it so I've been hoping for another option to
use them. Do you know of any VDR skinning tutorial? Maybe my work can
be used afterall.

Post by fnu
But the skins I did test, looked impressive with softhddevice :-)

I've now tried softhddevice and upon first impression, I like it!
However, I do have some things to say...

- I haven't figured out how to enter fullscreen mode. The README.txt
does say you need a windows manager but that installs too much crap I
don't need/want. Fullscreen mode should be possible _without_ a
windows manager.

- There's a lot of junk logging, such as:

video: 23:29:31.541 [phone]/\ms 3 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.541 [phone]/\ms 3 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.561 [phone]/\ms 3 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.561 [phone]/\ms 2 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.581 [phone]/\ms 7 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.581 [phone]/\ms 7 v-buf
video: 23:29:31.601 [phone]/\ms 7 v-buf

If this is useful for debugging or dev work, it should only be enabled
with a debug switch or something, but spamming the log with info that
appears useless to a regular user is bad behavior.

- Helpful logging is missing. For example, I didn't see anything
telling me I'm using VDPAU. I didn't see anything telling me what the
current deinterlacer being used is. These types of infos _are_ useful
imo and should be present in the log.

- I didn't see an option to toggle between surround sound and
surround-to-stereo mix anywhere. This is very useful to people who
don't leave their receiver and surround sound speakers on 24/7. And
also for people who watch channels with surround sound but only have
stereo speakers.

All our systems are minimal. All using VDPAU. All using audio+video
over HDMI. No windows/desktop/etc, only xserver -> only because
vdr-xine/xineliboutput/xine-lib need it to create video output. All
systems are installed on usb stick or sdhc card.

I'm not sure how (un)stable the plugin is yet but I'd like to continue
using this plugin while it matures.

[fnu]

Post by VDR User
- I haven't figured out how to enter fullscreen mode.

Well, AFAIK this is mentioned in the README. There are a couple of
switches/options for the plugin start, one of them is "-f" for full screen.
An other one is "-d" for the correct display and "-x" to start xorg by the
plugin. And no, there is no need for a display manager, I wonder where you
got this information ... most of us do test the plugin on existing Linux
desktop installtion, because there's quit a way to go ...

But VDPAU is IMHO closed to be ready for production use, but not VA-API or
even XvBA ...

Since author "johns" AFAIK isn't dealing with this mailing list, you could
place your questions here in this tread:

http://www.vdr-portal.de/board17-developer/board21-vdr-plugins/109700-softhd
device-software-vdpau-va-api-cpu-decoder-und-ausgabe-plugin/?s=b83100f9ae841
a9015a5769eb450a5611c1c7cb8

Don't worry just post in english, you'll get the answer also in english. Or
feel free to open a new one in english, you will get answers in english ...
;-)

Regards
fnu

[VDR User]

Post by fnu

Post by VDR User
- I haven't figured out how to enter fullscreen mode.

Well, AFAIK this is mentioned in the README. There are a couple of
switches/options for the plugin start, one of them is "-f" for full screen.
An other one is "-d" for the correct display and "-x" to start xorg by the
plugin. And no, there is no need for a display manager, I wonder where you
got this information ... most of us do test the plugin on existing Linux
desktop installtion, because there's quit a way to go ...

From "vdr -h":

softhddevice (0.4.7) - A software and GPU emulated HD device

-a device audio device (fe. alsa: hw:0,0 oss: /dev/dsp)
-p device audio device (alsa only) for pass-through (hw:0,1)
-d display display of x11 server (fe. :0.0)
-f start with fullscreen window (only with window manager)
-g geometry x11 window geometry wxh+x+y
-x start x11 server
-s start in suspended mode
-w workaround enable/disable workarounds
no-hw-decoder disable hw decoder, use software decoder only
no-mpeg-hw-decoder disable hw decoder for mpeg only
alsa-driver-broken disable broken alsa driver message

See -f.. "only with window manager".. Also, with the -g option, what
is "wxh+x+y" supposed to mean exactly? wxh(resolution?)+x(x position
for top left corner of the window?)+y(y position of top left corner of
the window?)...? That's just a guess -- it should be made more clear
imo.

Also, if softhddevice can start an xserver, it should be able to do it
in fullscreen mode so I see no reason at all for windows manager
requirement.

Btw, most of the users I know don't use a Linux desktop, they have
dedicated systems connected directly to their tv. I think it's good to
consider at least the most common setups.

Post by fnu
But VDPAU is IMHO closed to be ready for production use, but not VA-API or
even XvBA ...

That's good news since I'm a VDPAU-only user. ;) I did want to build
an i5-based VDR test box just for fun though so eventually I do plan
on trying the other option.

Post by fnu
Since author "johns" AFAIK isn't dealing with this mailing list, you could
http://www.vdr-portal.de/board17-developer/board21-vdr-plugins/109700-softhd
device-software-vdpau-va-api-cpu-decoder-und-ausgabe-plugin/?s=b83100f9ae841
a9015a5769eb450a5611c1c7cb8
Don't worry just post in english, you'll get the answer also in english. Or
feel free to open a new one in english, you will get answers in english ...
;-)

Thanks, I just send him a private message providing a link to this
thread and asked that he read it when he has a few free minutes so I
don't have to copy&paste.

I do see some promise with this plugin and it's _great_ that one
finally exists which will offer different HW accelerated options, and
not require xine-lib.

[Gerald Dachs]

Post by VDR User

Post by fnu
Don't worry just post in english, you'll get the answer also in english. Or
feel free to open a new one in english, you will get answers in english ...
;-)

Thanks, I just send him a private message providing a link to this
thread and asked that he read it when he has a few free minutes so I
don't have to copy&paste.

He told already in the vdr-portal that he wouldn't like to subscribe to
this list. Generally it might be better if you would have a little bit
more work doing cut&paste than the plugin author, because he is very
busy working on the plugin.

Gerald

[VDR User]

Post by VDR User
Thanks, I just send him a private message providing a link to this
thread and asked that he read it when he has a few free minutes so I
don't have to copy&paste.

He told already in the vdr-portal that he wouldn't like to subscribe to this
list. Generally it might be better if you would have a little bit more work
doing cut&paste than the plugin author, because he is very busy working on
the plugin.

There's a large non-german speaking VDR population that wouldn't know
that because of the fact. I've noticed in the past that people at
vdr-portal seem to get annoyed when someone asks them to repeat what
they've already said in german, but again in english. :\

[fnu]

Post by VDR User
-f start with fullscreen window (only with window manager)

Hmm, AFAIK xorg does come with a build in window manager, I'm not 100% sure,
but I guess it's called "xwm".

This provides just basic window work and I did use just pure xorg over years
with the "softdevice" plugin. There was no need to install openbox, fluxbox
etc.

Regards
fnu

[VDR User]

Post by fnu

 -f            start with fullscreen window (only with window manager)

Hmm, AFAIK xorg does come with a build in window manager, I'm not 100% sure,
but I guess it's called "xwm".

Xorg comes with a ton of useless dependencies. It's a complete waste
when only xserver is needed. It's possible xorg comes with xwm but
I'm certain that xserver doesn't.

Post by fnu
This provides just basic window work and I did use just pure xorg over years
with the "softdevice" plugin. There was no need to install openbox, fluxbox
etc.

You don't need a windows manager with xine/vdr-xine either, but
according to softhddevice own text, -f requires it.

[fnu]

You don't need a windows manager with xine/vdr-xine either, but according to softhddevice own text, -f requires it.

Well xorg alone would not work w/o any basic window management stuff, called it window manager or not, but bottomline it is one, included in pure xorg. If there wouldn't be a thing like this, you would not be able to open just a basic windows, like xterm. And you can do this, nowadays black on black instead of herringbone pattern, if you just install basic xorg with it's dependencies. There must be something which manages the size of the desktop, advise to open a window in a specific size on a defined position, or just fullscreen.

All other stuff known as window manager just adds kind of decoration, widgets, buttons, a kind of configuration scripting etc. ...

There was also no need to have an decoration manager to operate the old softdevice-plugin (SD), id did just run on the old herringbone desktop ... ;-)

Regards
fnu

[Torgeir Veimo]

Post by fnu
There was also no need to have an decoration manager to operate the old softdevice-plugin (SD), id did just run on the old herringbone desktop ... ;-)

And the source code license for softdevice allows you to rip that code
out and add it to softhddevice. There's no better way to improve a
project then to get involved.

[VDR User]

Dudes,
did set up a basic VDR on Ubuntu Precise yesterday and it did work as expected.
Install a minimal Ubuntu from alternate installer, add "apt-get install xorg nvidia-current", VDR e.g. from our yaVDR PPA (ppa:yavdr/unstable-vdr, ppa:yavdr/main) incl. vdr-plugin-softhddevice and you're almost done. SoftHDDevice does start with this basic Xorg from Ubuntu repository, no additional WM like openbox, fluxbox, lightdm etc. needed.

I've been testing softhddevice basically since I first saw this
thread. I never heard of softhddevice before that. So far it works
fairly well. There are a few issues to sort out (such as issues
ffw/rew h264 recordings, allowing users to set the color of the
non-video area *for plasma tv users, etc) but overall it's off to a
great start imo. Also, the issues I've found also existed and were
fixed in vdr-xine so I'm confident they could be fixed in softhddevice
as well.